Mr. Farage, today we know the results of Greek elections – the pro-European parties will most probably form a government which will continue in austerity struggle as the IMF, European Commission and most of all Germany hope. You once said that the Commission has made a protectorate out of Greece – is it only continuation of such trend?
Obviously, there are two sides – the pro-bailout parties and ones which wanted to break the memorandum with international institutions. Most of voters gave their yes to anti-bailout parties but thanks to extraordinary system in Greece where the winning party gets a bonus of fifty seats, there will be a pro-memorandum Greek government. That does not seem fair in terms of overall votes, when government represents the minor opinion on such strategic issue.
This result pleases international community which has pushed the Greek to follow faithful path. In my opinion, this outcome will only intensify current crisis.
Have you seen any pressure on the Greeks to vote pro-bailout from the German side?
Even global pressure! President Obama, David Cameron, Tony Blair, everybody in the European Union,… but not Czech president Václav Klaus.
Is Greece a real protectorate, as you uttered in one of your speeches?
Basically, it is being run by three foreign non-elected bureaucrats. Once the Greek politicians try to say something what these people don’t like, like former Greek Prime Minister Papandreu pondering referendum some time ago, they remove them! There is not so much of a choice in my opinion. So the Greek elections were about surrendering, as far as I am concerned.
You have been also talking about democratic deficit in the European Parliament…
No, no! Term democratic deficit implies that there is a vacuum between elected parts of the system and the bureaucratic ones. There is no democratic deficit in the European Union. The EU project is not undemocratic, it is clearly antidemocratic.
But some argue that your strongly critical speeches in the European Parliament are a proof that the system is very democratic.
My speeches are means to raise attention of people across Europe on the real problems. I try to speak about myths that are put by the ruling class, I also try to encourage democratic rebellion across Europe. Back at my home we have a long tradition of being a member of parliament you despise – such as Scotish or Irish nationalistic parties in the British Parliament. I am given a real opportunity to voice arguments, but nevertheless I cannot change anything.
Is there a democratic way of saying straight no to further integration?
In 2005, the European Constitution was on the table, the French and the Dutch said no. If ever there was a moment, where democratic deficit could have been recognized – that was it. And what have they done? Euro-federalists rebranded the very same document it as a Lisbon Treaty – that is why it is an antidemocratic project which is run by bad people.
You never reform that, it has been set up this way from the beginning under the community method which practically means that you cannot reverse anything important. Ultimately, more opposition, the better – nevertheless for small country as the Czech Republic there are not so many ways how you can resist. Currently ruling class of people in the European institutions is not going to let the power they got in last fifty years get of their hands.
Are you saying that the process of deeper integration will go on till the United States of Europe?
There is thinkable way - only when significant countries leave so that there is nobody important left on the board. Such move would encourage smaller countries to do so as well. We as United Kingdom are a big country with 62 million people that gives us a chance of making our own decisions. Small countries feel vulnerable and afraid of the goliath structure, therefore I understand the position of the Czech Republic.
The only way is to give people choices at the elections, go to Brussels and be difficult, not to sign every treaty without even looking at it. Your country has done quite a good job in this – luckily, there is at least some debate. If you look at Spain or Germany, there is nobody amongst the political elites who you could vote for is you do not agree with the major opinion on the EU!
You said in connection to the EU – Titanic has hit the iceberg. When will it sink?
Great thing about major events in history is that you never know. Who would have thought that the issue with Hungarian visas would lead to fall of Berlin Wall? The 100 billion bailout for Spanish banks has enhanced trust of markets for about six hours, they were positive for a short while. To be sincere, I think we have hit the iceberg – my guess is that Greece will be out of euro-zone within a year.
And Spain will remain in the Euro-paying club?
At the moment, everybody has head buried deeply into the sand so the relevant people are not able to recognize it. Spain has suffered tremendously through Euro – very much at the beginning of their membership of the club. Spanish banks had completely false interest rates, banks were lending everything to everybody.
The debate about leaving Euro will kick off in Spain pretty soon – there is a fear that Greek exit would open gates for Spain and Portugal as well. That is why the EU officials are doing everything they can to keep Greece in the Euro-zone, also why the international community has put a pressure on Greek voters to put up a pro-bailout government, so that the contra-move does not galvanize the Euro-zone split.
Is Euro a bad project from the very beginning?
I do not think there a much of conspiracy. It is, just as communism, based on a nice theoretical idea which in practical terms does not work - both deny human nature and human greed. The European contract is based on idea that the existence of national states practically causes war, so once you remove national states, such treat is over.
I consider it a fraud, people want to live in national states – we live in Europe, not in America. We have not left our families behind and gone overseas to build a new nation, this premise is wrong and founders of such concept have not understood the very nature of man.
On economic side, it is amazing. America draws up a constitution and it takes another hundred years to have economic and monetary union. Here in Europe we set up the economic and monetary union and hope that other things will easily follow. It is relatively difficult to have common currency and one interest rate in one homogenous country. In the United Kingdom we had some problems paying for Newcastle, but people accept that because we all are one nation. Then we can send most of our taxes from London to Newcastle, because we are all one nation.
How can you politically manage to tell people that for next thirty years their taxes will be send over to Greece? It simply does not work! Go ahead and tell is to the Dutch when their own cities have many social problems. That is why Euro project is doomed from very beginning.
Who pushes this train of ideas forward?
These people running the EU are fanatics. They simply want to build the United States of Europe and they do not care if tens of millions fall, what matters is maintaining their dream. The European Commission is full of communists – Jose Manuel Barosso is a former maoist, Catherine Ashton was getting money from Kremlin to run a campaign for the European Parliament! In the last Commission there was a right hand of former Hungarian dictator. What a squad!
Is this background of decision-makers you are mentioning somehow connected to the politics they are coming up with?
Look, nobody believes in God anymore. The euro-fanatics is a new religion, a substitution of God. After we found out that communism was a disaster, these people had to come up with a new big idea they could fight for.
If communism was dominant trendy thought of the first part of the twentieth century, euro-federalism was the leading idea of the second part of twentieth century. People need to believe to something transcendental, something big. Mercifully, I have never suffered from that problem.
Is Czech president Václav Klaus going to join you fighting Euro openly on international stage after finishing his presidential term in 2013?
I would be more than happy if he does. Honestly, I have been lonely in my position and moreover, he is ultimately credible figure and can make such a huge difference. Our side of arguments has been struggling in terms of big names on the stage.
Why is it so?
Soviets used to kill their opponents, the EU just bribes them. It is very interesting to watch the East- European stage – how many of your politicians have changed their views since they have been given a nice car and office in Brussels.
Main goal of your party – UKIP is getting the United Kingdom out of the European Union. Is it really possible?
Sure. Some countries are going to push ahead through this crisis for deeper fiscal and political union for which there has to be a referendum in the United Kingdom someday. There is also a huge call from the British private sector – we cannot sign our own international treaties, there is a pack of regulations on everything, all we want is a free trade agreement. Therefore I am very optimistic about radical changes in relation between the UK and the EU.
There has been also another significant development in European politics – France has a new socialist president who pushes for further spending. Does it make any splash in the debate?
I will quote a communist, Lenin once said – worse is better. The worse the perception of communism was, the better outcome of communist revolution came. That is why I truly hope that what we have in France is really good.
There is a socialist president which is great because he has no chance of controlling public spending bills and will not keep to any spending limit at all. The wedge between France and Germany will be driven even further so they have no chance of acting synergistically. Everybody focused on Greece in last two years and no one has noticed that competitiveness gap between Germany and France has split drastically.
It is not that only Mediterranean states would leave the Euro, I think that the whole project would disappear due to this gap. In the end, you finish with a great Deutsche Mark zone, which to be sincere, everybody is afraid of. Honestly, I think that politics of Francois Holland will haze the end of Euro.
When criticizing non-elected European structures, you said that President of European Council Hermann Van Rompuy has charisma of a wet rag.
In fact, he has not even charisma of a rag and is also the worst-dressed man in Brussels. I sincerely do not get who picks his shirt-tie combinations. I do not think I was that rude that I got a fee of ten-day payroll. In most democratic parliaments all over the world people make jokes of each other, I was pointing out that Mr. Rompuy has bigger salary than president Obama and nobody knows him in Europe!
I recall a moment when Jerzy Buzek, then a President of the European Parliament, called me in and said – “Mr. Rompuy is un-elected, you cannot criticize him!” I replied: “Exactly, this was my point!” It is ridiculous that nobody important in the European Union is elected!
It was designed like this from the very start. The Constitution in 2005 was the point where democracy could have been brought in on the stage, such as when the European government would be coming over from the European Parliament.
Founder of the whole idea Jean Monet identified something what he called beneficiary crisis back in 1951. Nowadays, the financial crisis is being used as such, under this cover-up a silent integration will follow. Monet and other people like him wanted to plan our future fifty years ahead, does it seem familiar to you?
Are you referring to communism?
Published in Reflex Weekly.
Authors: Jakub Janda, Ondřej Šlechta
Nigel Paul Farage is a British politician and is the Leader of the UK Independence Party (UKIP), a position he also held from September 2006 to November 2009. He is a Member of the European Parliament for South East Englandand co-chairs the Eurosceptic Europe of Freedom and Democracy group.
Farage is a founding member of the UKIP, having left the Conservative Party in 1992 after they signed the Maastricht Treaty. Having unsuccessfully campaigned in European and Westminster parliamentary elections for UKIP since 1994, he gained a seat as an MEP for South East England in the1999 European Parliament Election — the first year the regional list system was used — and was re-elected in 2004 and 2009. Farage describes himself as a libertarian and rejects the notion that he is a conservative.
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